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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2013, 3:54 pm 
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Brads next model for his buggy


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 5:54 am 
I work to support my 4X4!

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I just read the build thread on Pirate. Yes, kudos for the general concept, and kudos for cutting up the JK in the first place, but constructive criticism on other stuff. Look, I don't care how you build your own rig, I've said for a very long time that what you actually have when rock crawling is a four patches of rubber on the ground, what's above that mostly doesn't matter. However, if we're going to discuss quality of design and construction, then there are comments to make mostly so others can learn from reading about it.

I've already commented about the lack of nodes, having as many tubes intersect makes the cage stronger. This has to be foremost in your mind when designing and building, and you guys missed it, so many opportunities missed here. You have dead end tubes all over the place, a professionally built cage would have very few dead end tubes. As was discussed on Pirate, the A pillar tie in to the rocker is very substandard, no node at the tie in of the A pillar bar to the down bar, the dash bar doesn't even tie in at the same location, and that bend is totally exposed with no reinforcement. The belt line bar/door bar should have been carried forward to intersect with the bar along the hood, then a down bar from that tube intersection down to the rocker, creating a node at the cowl. The way it is right now, without further reinforcement, is likely to move when (not if) you roll it hard. Visually, the cage lacks continuity. The tubes that make up the belt line are not in a line....the bar along the base of the hood, the door bar, and the rear end hoop. These should be one continuous line to look right, in my opinion, don't know why you wouldn't do that. Not a straight line necessarily, but tied together at the intersections of the A and B pillars, right now those three bars are all at a different angle and not tied together. It looks like there was a lack of prior planing as the cage went together, don't know the real story. I won't mention the B pillar again.....oops, I just did. :mrgreen:

The rear shock location is too inboard. You'll be very glad you have the ORI's, with air shocks or coilovers you would have stability issues with the shocks mounted so inboard like they are. If the shock mounts were more outboard, you'd have better stability and more room for storage, again it looks like poor prior planning. With the long wheelbase that you have you should have room for plenty of storage, and yet you don't. Since you have just one rig, which will be for JV and for the camping runs, storage is going to be an issue. I know you'll figure it out, but you lost the opportunity to have a really cool solution.

There are plenty of positive things, overall the thing is going to be cool. You have a great axle choice, and the suspension layout looks good. You're going to have a blast and we're going to have lot's of good times. If you're going to joke about building more of them, then hopefully my comments can be considered for the next build. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 8:15 am 
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Thanks Richard.... constructive criticism is always welcome.

Question, do you feel the planned additions will strengthen the A pillar? I've attached a picture with the planned additions. There will also be some gusseting in the window frame (looking from the front)

Attachment:
Untitled.jpg


Storage was lost in the rear, due to the extreme dovetail and approach angle I wanted. I agree, it could have been done slightly better, but likely not a ton due to that constraint. The hoops took up a lot of room as well. I do have a TON of storage behind the seats (~10" when the seats are adjusted fully back). I've already built 80% of a floor back there and will skin the rest up to the belt line to make it secure. With the seats forward.... I doubt there will ever be a real issue with that. In the end.... this is a buggy, not an expo rig.... storage wasn't the primary concern while designing.

With the ORIs, mounting inboard like that should not be an issue, correct? Also... I believe the thinking on the location was that when the axle drops out, we wanted the strut to be vertical. Josh can expand more on this, but that was my understanding.

As for aesthetics... I'm pretty happy with the looks and really.... I am the only one that needs to be impressed with that.

I would love to build more... but doubt you'll have to worry about us opening a shop next to yours.


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 13th, 2013, 4:05 pm 
I work to support my 4X4!

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abendx wrote:
Thanks Richard.... constructive criticism is always welcome.

Question, do you feel the planned additions will strengthen the A pillar? I've attached a picture with the planned additions. There will also be some gusseting in the window frame (looking from the front)

Attachment:
Untitled.jpg



I'd run the door bar forward to intersect with the hood bar, then run a down bar from that intersection down and back to connect with the existing A pillar down bar at the rocker. That would make nodes at both ends of the tubes you're adding. That should make the A pillar strong enough, the front fender bars won't matter much to the A pillar, they need to take mostly side force from rubbing hard against the rocks. What you've drawn looks fine, if you need much at all. I'd probably add nothing, unless you want to do it for looks. Are you considering adding skins in that area?


abendx wrote:
I do have a TON of storage behind the seats (~10" when the seats are adjusted fully back). I've already built 80% of a floor back there and will skin the rest up to the belt line to make it secure. With the seats forward.... I doubt there will ever be a real issue with that. In the end.... this is a buggy, not an expo rig.... storage wasn't the primary concern while designing.


I forgot how short you are. :thefinger:



abendx wrote:
With the ORIs, mounting inboard like that should not be an issue, correct? Also... I believe the thinking on the location was that when the axle drops out, we wanted the strut to be vertical. Josh can expand more on this, but that was my understanding.


The bottoms could have been moved further out, then the tops could also be further out. Lot's of room left to move them outward. You'd still lean them in enough to clear the tires at full articulation. You'll be fine.


abendx wrote:
As for aesthetics... I'm pretty happy with the looks and really.... I am the only one that needs to be impressed with that.

I would love to build more... but doubt you'll have to worry about us opening a shop next to yours.


Down the road you might feel differently. As you learn your standards tend to go up. My buggy works fine, which was all I was concerned with at the time, form over function totally. Now, I don't want to spend the time and money to redo it, and there are simple things I could have done to make it more attractive that now I wished I'd paid more attention to.


Not worried. Doubt you had so much fun that you'd like to do it again, especially for a picky customer. :mrgreen:


When are we going to Area URF?

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2013, 4:26 pm 
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Thanks for the tips Richard.... I think we'll incorporate something along those lines.

Been playing with some electrical yesterday and today.... and look at this, firewall back, minus the dash. I am NOT looking forward the the harnesses in the engine bay, as the little I did in there was extremely tedious... but it has to be done as the bind in those harnesses is huge and I might want to shorten some of them after I strip the wire out.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2013, 9:35 pm 
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Holy shit! what a bird's nest of useless crap! Have you started on the steering yet?

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 23rd, 2013, 8:26 am 
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Desert Dog wrote:
Holy shit! what a bird's nest of useless crap! Have you started on the steering yet?


lol... you're telling me... and more to strip. It's slow and not a lot of fun. BUT.... things look much better... smaller looms and no more clutter.

Steering.... not yet.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: August 26th, 2013, 11:13 am 
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abendx wrote:
Thanks for the tips Richard.... I think we'll incorporate something along those lines.

Been playing with some electrical yesterday and today.... and look at this, firewall back, minus the dash. I am NOT looking forward the the harnesses in the engine bay, as the little I did in there was extremely tedious... but it has to be done as the bind in those harnesses is huge and I might want to shorten some of them after I strip the wire out.

Image

just leave that mess out at the curb. you'll give an urban miner a boner :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 2nd, 2013, 6:35 pm 
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I suck.... no pictures to show off and I know the Bako school system has trained y'all to ignore the text. But whatever... there are still some rednecks from Texas and Tehachapi that can read the written word... so all hope isn't lost if they continue to populate the area. Anyhow.... just a little update.

Close... very close I am.

Other than minor cosmetic shit and wiring up some additional aux lighting (which I am slowly doing while I take breaks from the important stuff)... I have to finish installing the steering, build a subframe/skid system, finish the last two bends around the wheel wells, add a few gussets, install new mufflers, ... off the top of my head, that's it. If everything goes well... it will be done in the next couple of weeks.... just BARELY squeaking by for the Utah trip. Hoping to finish the steering tomorrow so I can drive it. It will be nice to get it off the trailer and work from the ground (something I should have started with four weeks ago when I brought her home).

Ran some diag's on the engine and almost every code thrown was expected. I have an O2 sensor to replace and think the cel will disappear (although, I may have to jerry rig an evap sensor). I am not 100% positive that things will be perfect once these items are buttoned up.... I stripped a LOT of wire and removed quite a few sensors and subsystems. These items were wired together as you would never believe... systems talking to subsystems that have nothing to do with one another and dependencies that make no sense (e.g. removing the abs hydro portion renders the speedo/odo inop? I believe I have figured out how to get these working, but I am going to have to go into the PCM and modify a circuit board and then wire directly into it.... WTF!?!). All of it due to the CANBUS system they use... while I really enjoy playing with computer shit, this is a different animal as there isn't a lot of documentation and what is available is, for the most part, lacking.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 6:12 am 
My 4X4 owns me!

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You might take it for a test ride tomorrow!!!! Awesome! Good luck! And post pics dammit!

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 7:12 am 
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Who needs a fucking speedometer! Just rig up a tach and call it good :lol3:

If you don't have the evap canister in the system, it throws a "GAS CAP" code. so you are going to have to trick it into thinking its there. I'm sure someone has figured it out. Or, since your Juggy will never legitimately pass smog again, who gives a shit if it throws a GAS CAP code. I would just get the shit going and worry about the evap issue later.

HURRY THE FOCK UP!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 7:32 am 
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Desert Dog wrote:
Who needs a fucking speedometer! Just rig up a tach and call it good :lol3:

If you don't have the evap canister in the system, it throws a "GAS CAP" code. so you are going to have to trick it into thinking its there. I'm sure someone has figured it out. Or, since your Juggy will never legitimately pass smog again, who gives a shit if it throws a GAS CAP code. I would just get the shit going and worry about the evap issue later.

HURRY THE FOCK UP!!!!!!


I'd like to throw as little as possible, while keeping as much BS out of the system as possible... may be a pipe dream, but that's the goal.

And I am hurrying.... geez, ask Jackie... I've been working out in the yard from anywhere between nine and noon and don't usually knock off till after dark. This end of the work has taken quite a bit more time than I'd have guessed, but maybe I never assumed I'd rip out all that wire? Maybe I'm attempting to preserve as much of my back as possible and going slow... hell, IDK... but it's close!! :)

Chris... you going to Utah?


ANd no worries Jeff, if I get it off the trailer and can take a decent shot, you'll see it. Should also be bak in Bako soon enough to finish the tube work with Josh, so another op.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 7:58 am 
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Get ER done brad. Sure was nice setting up my obd1 engine. 5 wires and she runs. Speedo is mechanical (still haven't hooked It up though). I say scrap all that bs and put a hemi in it!


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 8:23 am 
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Zak.Taylor wrote:
Get ER done brad. Sure was nice setting up my obd1 engine. 5 wires and she runs. Speedo is mechanical (still haven't hooked It up though). I say scrap all that bs and put a hemi in it!


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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 8:56 am 
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:Thumb: glad to see some light at the end of the tunnel huh

your shake down run will be UTAH? daaaaaamn!

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 2:26 pm 
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Uncle Cracker wrote:
:Thumb: glad to see some light at the end of the tunnel huh

your shake down run will be UTAH? daaaaaamn!


Sucks... yes!

ANyways... small issue today. I got the steering all plumbed, but the tie rods PSC sent me are both short. I took a trip to the two local steel yards and nothing even remotely close.... Ventura Steel is now owned by B&B.... and they have some... so another day or two on that. :(

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 3rd, 2013, 5:17 pm 
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Well... a setback. blew out the feed line from the pump while I was bleeding the system.... Jeep used a funky fitting at the pump which psc followed suit with... so to replace the line, I had to order the adapter.... so a delay of two or so days. :(

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 4th, 2013, 6:47 am 
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abendx wrote:
Well... a setback. blew out the feed line from the pump while I was bleeding the system.... Jeep used a funky fitting at the pump which psc followed suit with... so to replace the line, I had to order the adapter.... so a delay of two or so days. :(

ah,,, the details always suck,,, :freakout:

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 6:04 am 
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:thinking: if i remember correctly :thinking:
you went with "howe" to avoid the
"full hydro" problems> as seen in my build thread

:thinking: huh :thinking:
well i'll be damned

:lol3: :lol2: :lol: :lol3: :lol2: :lol: :yup: :clap: :lol3: :lol2: :lol:

in my particular situation>> it was all my fault<< TG didn't fuck up


i just have that "listening disorder" thing going on :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 9:51 am 
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Uncle Cracker wrote:
:thinking: if i remember correctly :thinking:
you went with "howe" to avoid the
"full hydro" problems> as seen in my build thread
i just have that "listening disorder" thing going on

And a reading disorder.....he mentions PSC in the post you responded to :thefinger:

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 9:58 am 
I replaced my blood with mud!
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:oops: :lol2:

yep

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 10:07 am 
I replaced my blood with mud!
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i was wondering where i heard "howe"
so i went back to my thread, when i was having my problems
with the orbital (i thought)
B-rad mentions "howe" there

what parts are howe and which are psc :dontknow:


brad also mentions "that only roger has problems with his hydro steering"

:dontknow: could this be karma :thefinger: :lol2:

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 11:03 am 
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Fuck karma.... this is lfe whne you have little idea what's going on. lol

the orbital is from howe... psc sells howe orbitals.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 11:05 am 
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Rock and interior lights.

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 Post subject: Re: ...
PostPosted: September 6th, 2013, 11:39 am 
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Dammmm! I just nutted all over the screen!

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